Used Fluence for 9000 - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #1 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-15-2013, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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Used Fluence for 9000

Browsing Renault Retail found six Fluence Z.E. for sale.


Renault Leicester has two at 9000 each and one for 11,000.

Renault Croydon has three at 10,000 each.

Renault Manchester has one for 11,000. Could that be Paul's former car? HV12 CCD.


9000 for 61 plate car? That isn't even two years old yet.

A bargain if:

You don't need to drive more than the car's range per day. (60 winter 90 summer)
You live within 60 miles of a servicing Renault Z.E. dealer
You get one of the reliable ones.


Just noticed that they are all HN or HV. That's Portsmouth DVLA. Hmmm. Could they all be from the same fleet operator?

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post #2 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-15-2013, 04:37 AM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie
Browsing Renault Retail found six Fluence Z.E. for sale.


Renault Leicester has two at 9000 each and one for 11,000.

Renault Croydon has three at 10,000 each.

Renault Manchester has one for 11,000. Could that be Paul's former car? HV12 CCD.


9000 for 61 plate car? That isn't even two years old yet.

A bargain if:

You don't need to drive more than the car's range per day. (60 winter 90 summer)
You live within 60 miles of a servicing Renault Z.E. dealer
You get one of the reliable ones.


Just noticed that they are all HN or HV. That's Portsmouth DVLA. Hmmm. Could they all be from the same fleet operator?
And as you know from the Leaftalk forum (or is that Fantasy Charger Wish List Forum), I was offered a cracking deal on one of these 62 plate 9,000 Fluences;

36 Month PCP based on 12000 miles per annum
200 deposit and then 131.42 per month. GFV 6832.71

24 Month PCP based on 12000 miles per annum
200 deposit and then 98.80 per month. GFV 8489.26

It's a bargain to be sure even WITH the 115 monthly battery lease added to this, but I am just so worried about reliability. I don't want to end up like the only other Fluence owner on here with a very bad experience. I can handle 60 mile range but I do need the car to start and stop every day for my commute.



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post #3 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 02:11 PM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

I took one off these away from Leicester last week.

Quote:
Just noticed that they are all HN or HV. That's Portsmouth DVLA. Hmmm. Could they all be from the same fleet operator?
They are Renault's own demonstrator/press vehicles, afaik. If you go looking for UK press reports on the Fluence you'll see the HN61*** reg's throughout.

Mine was registered January 2012. Again 'AFAIK', the official launch of the Fluence in the UK was 1st March, so you can see that these [61 reg] are 'early' cars.

I suspect they had been in a compound somewhere and were just clearing them out. We had a bit of fuss getting tax on the thing for me to take it away (the dealer said I could apply to Swinton who offer a 7 day temporary insurance so as to get a cover note, but Swinton refused to insure the car!!). The lack of a 0 rated tax disc makes me thing that maybe no-one bothered to apply for a new one in Jan 2013. I can't see why anyone would bother to 'cash in' a 0 tax disc, so makes me think they have been sitting in a compound for 6 months while Renault decided what to do with them.

I did notice the cars available had well-spun front tyres - by that I mean you can see an excess of playful wheel spinning has been going on. Why they give you an option to turn the anti-skid control off I don't really understand, but you can imagine these press hacks giving it the full welly. Don't they have anything better to do when testing cars!?!? Anyhow, I did stop to wonder about whether this might've damaged the car/batteries, but at the end of the day one might equally consider this to be 'stress-screening', and as mine clearly continues to work very well and will not experience such abuse again, I think I can rest easy. (Although, as the tread on the front tyres is a full 1 mm less than the rears, presumably as a result of 'press testing', this might cause me to rotate the tyres front-back at some stage in the near future!!)

These press cars come fully loaded to impress, of course. Leather, metallic, includes the regular 3-pin 'occasional' lead, rolling sun screens (I like very much), and a few other extras - although the basic model comes pretty heavily spec'd a it is.

Bear in mind that 'Better Place' went bust in May, which was Renault's main customer for this Fluence in the short-term, and these don't have fast-charging facilities. So they are rather 'orphaned', so to speak, and I guess Renault didn't really know what to do with these. So think hard before buying one as they are essentially designed for battery swap and are a bit of a compromise here in UK (so as to get the launch out of the way, I guess). I'm lead to believe the next year's Fluence's will have the same 3-ph fast-charger as the Zoe was released with.

The Fluence is meant to be a 'compact' car. It's huge! Don't get one if you have a tiny drive/garage!! I have a Grand Espace and this IS [believe it or not] the same length [~4750mm] and width [~1810] as the G Espace. That's a big car, and is quite awkward to find a parking space big enough quite often. It'll be a good idea to go find a charging bay, just because you get extra parking space around it for the lead!!

Oh, yeah, the other unique, nice thing about the Fluence over any other current EV is that there are duplicate charging points on both sides of the car, so you don't have to think hard about which way around you position the car! (I wonder if that feature will be dropped when they do the fast-charge option for the Fluence.)
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post #4 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 03:10 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

If they were properly stored with about 80% charge on the pack, there wouldn't be any damage. If they weren't you've got the battery hire warranty. The pack wearing out isn't something I'd worry about.


I know what you mean about the size. Fluence drives like a big car. I'm American. We are used to big cars.
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post #5 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-25-2013, 01:30 PM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

I would be happy to hear your experiences of ownership. I like the idea of the Leaf but the Fluence is soo cheap for a big, fully loaded car. My one concern is the battery lease, will they ever pull the plug on it, are they quick to set up the payments, how was getting a reasonable insurance premium? etc
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post #6 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-31-2013, 03:16 PM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

Just been looking on Autotrader and a virtually brand new UK built Nissan Leaf is going for 11,995. OK its one of those following the Renault model of leasing the battery but 12k for a brand new car is keen. Makes the 8,500 Fluence look positively overpriced.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classifi...?logcode=ucbnp
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post #7 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-31-2013, 03:25 PM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

I'd still prefer the Fluence if the prices were the same but, yeah, looks like a good deal.

You gonna bite?
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post #8 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-31-2013, 04:27 PM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald
I'd still prefer the Fluence if the prices were the same but, yeah, looks like a good deal.

You gonna bite?
I wish. My next car will be EV, though when that'll be remains the big unknown atm. It was going to be last year but complications arose, so now I'm keeping my eye on all options.

The amazing deal offered earlier in the thread is very tempting but I just struggle with the battery lease - hence all the questions about it.
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post #9 of 72 (permalink) Old 07-31-2013, 06:10 PM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

Yeah. I'm a bit sad they've not released the Fluence in the US, maybe they will under a 'Nissan' badge (I think it'd go down well in the US, at least much better than here in UK). I'm sad, because if they did then some companies over there would pop up and make their own battery packs for the thing.

Personally, I'd prefer to see a NiMH battery pack, or maybe one with Lithium Titanate cells (I'm lead to believe Mitsubishi are going to be using LiTiO from 2013 for the MiEV). This would probably drop the capacity, but then the batteries would last for a couple of decades. If I was buying, I'd be prepared to forego a little range (seeing as its range is pretty good as it is) for battery life.

The funny thing is that some of these lower power density options would actually work out much the same pack weight overall, because they are more robust technologies that do not need to be nursed so heavily for temperature and cell voltage. What you gain in power density with Li cells, you lose out on with battery management. Boeing's cells that caught fire are a case in point - they pick Li cells to reduce weight, but then stick it in a solid, blast-proof stainless steel case!! Probably would've been easier, safer, cheaper and more reliable to have just plumbed for NiMH in the first place!!

I mean, if I went to panasonic/sanyo and bought 10,800 AA cells in the new 'eneloop' type chemistry (I really like my eneloop batteries! Pansonic 'infinium' are the same tech), then imagine they could be packed into 30 cells x 30 cells (about 40 cm square) pancakes, which'd be 900 cells in each layer, then 12 layers, so that'd be a volume some 40cm x 40cm x 60cm with a capacity of around 22kWh. What'd the wholesale cost on 10,800 cells be? 30p each? 3,500 total? And this is tried and trusted tech. Is it really that simple!?? They're rated for 1,800 recharge cycles, say at 100 miles per charge, good for 180,000 miles, then!? Why bother with this 'oh-so-delicate-temperature-sensitive-don't charge-it-to-100%' Li tech? (weight: 27g/cell = 290kg for 22kWh) I'd happily pay 3,500 once every 180,000 miles for batteries (2p/mile), if that's all it would take!

It does make me wonder how much molly-cuddling they are giving their Li batteries, when the actual overall kWh/kg rating doesn't seem to be much different to some fairly basic, decades-old battery technologies. Makes me think one day they'll just say 'ah! we've only been letting you access 30% to 70% of the battery, with a software tweak (yours for 5k) we can double your range'!

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post #10 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 01:40 AM
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RE: Used Fluence for 9000

Well isn't the patent up on NiMH? Though I thought a much larger battery would be required as per the original year 2000 Toyota Rav4 (California only).

And regarding only letting you access 30%-70% of the battery. Isn't that the case already (around 80%)? I know on the Prius I have, the car only uses the 40%-60% banding to allow for increased lifespan. It's a 1.5 kwh battery but will only do about 1.5 miles on battery alone on a flat. The Plug in Prius has a 5kwh battery but does 15 miles. Surely the latter is using more of its battery and thus it may not last as long?

Who knows? Not me, that's for sure.
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