Insurance - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Insurance

Who's everybody with? I used Adrian Flux for the Twizy, but unsure if they'll be any use when I jump ship.
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 04:32 PM
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RE: Insurance

Tin of worms discussed at length before. I think you just got to double check with the individual companies regarding the HV battery lease. Fail to do so at your own risk.
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 04:44 AM
Eep
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RE: Insurance

How you mean exactly? Reason I ask is that at some point I hope to find myself in the same situation.

ie Are there insurance consequences of the battery lease?
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Insurance

As AF did the Twizy, and were cognisant of the fact the battery interest was held by the leasing company, the issue never arose. The interest was in correctly identifying the value of the vehicle AND battery, so as the replacement cost of a similar specced Fluence is currently 7k (and unlikely to rise) then with the ZE Pack having a value of 5k - the stated price for a write off is 12k.

They just got back to me saying my mid-term swap would cost 49 (excl fees) so the annual insurance cost for me has been hiked by 70, when you compare what the Fluence brings in comfort and security (locking doors, airbags etc), the Twizy cover is very overpriced - but then, I always thought that.
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 07:11 AM
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RE: Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eep
How you mean exactly? Reason I ask is that at some point I hope to find myself in the same situation.

ie Are there insurance consequences of the battery lease?
Your car gets flooded in a storm and is now a write off. Insurance company look at it and look at Autotrader to establish a value (normally they look in the trade book but Renault EVs don't appear there because of the HV battery lease!). Ah, they range from 7,000 to 8,000 at main dealers they say. We'll give you 6,500 trade in value.

The HV lease company come along wanting 6,000 for their ruined battery. You stress that would only leave you 500. They don't care.

Insurance companies don't care what value you put on the application as that's mainly a guide. Infact, many will assume it's valued under 30,000 unless you tell them otherwise. They ONLY pay out market value of the car at the time of the loss. That's how people get stung when the settlement doesn't cover the outstanding finance. With Renault they get stung even more!

Some companies will replace the car if it's written off in the first 12 (some upto 18) months from new with you as the FIRST registered keeper.

That's assuming they take you on in the first place as you have a duty to tell them of the weird HV battery lease. I'm sure some who are not in the trade will tell you otherwise, but believe me, you need to tell them as it it could very easily affect their acceptance. Better to find out before taking the policy out, than 2 years later when they refuse your claim.
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 07:46 AM
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RE: Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzby
As AF did the Twizy, and were cognisant of the fact the battery interest was held by the leasing company, the issue never arose. The interest was in correctly identifying the value of the vehicle AND battery, so as the replacement cost of a similar specced Fluence is currently 7k (and unlikely to rise) then with the ZE Pack having a value of 5k - the stated price for a write off is 12k.
Not to rake over the coals, but did we not have a discussion where you laughed at my suggestion the pack was 5K? Which is it to be?

I had assumed the monthly battery figure included insurance. I mean, surely to god it does. Because otherwise it'd be like paying home insurance on a rented house.

(some Googling later)

Quote:
8. Insurance and risk
8.1 You are responsible for the Battery from the time of delivery and from this time the risk of loss or damage shall pass to you.

8.2 You are responsible for arranging insurance for the Battery from the time of delivery. Insurance cover must be effected with the same reputable insurer through whom you insure the vehicle and under the same fully comprehensive policy that you insure the vehicle so that the battery is covered with the same level of cover. You must keep the Battery so insured throughout the currency of this Hire Agreement or otherwise whilst the Battery is in your possession or under your control. This applies whether the Battery is in the United Kingdom or abroad. The insurance must cover the Insured value of the Battery (as defined in clause 19). You will be responsible for any uninsured losses.

8.3 You must tell your insurer that we own the Battery and that you hire it from us under this Hire Agreement. You must show us the policy on request. You must pay all insurance premiums on time and comply, in all respects, with the terms of your policy.

8.4 In the event that the Battery is damaged, you must use any monies paid to you by your insurer to repair the Battery at anauthorised ZE Aftersales Service centre or repairer applying Renault standards of repair, if it can be repaired. You must advise us if the Battery is damaged and we will have the right to arrange for its repair ourselves (subject to our consultation with your insurers)


Oh. My. God. That's me out. How would Renault even corroborate the cover being in place, and for the correct amount? And even if their beleaguered EV dealers manage to overcome customer resistance to leasing different pieces of the same jigsaw puzzle, they still have to tell them to insure it for a significantly higher combined value by including the battery whose replacement cost nobody bloody knows!

This might be my last post here. If so, it's been thoroughly informative. Thank you all.
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 09:25 AM
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RE: Insurance

It's really not that complicated. Just phone the insurance company up and explain it item by item and get them to agree that they will pay for the car and battery replacements, which are two elements.

Direct line seemed happy enough to confirm this, after making sure with their underwriters.

In my case I have a second line of 'defence', as I also have GAP insurance to cover any losses in respect of the car being written off to make up the amount to the finance. The amount should cover any claim they make for the battery too, even if the insurance didn't pay anything for that.

I understand the concern, but I don't think it is such a big deal. Just spell it out with your insurance company and be clear they'll cover the car value AND the battery value.
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 09:53 AM
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RE: Insurance

Insuring the car and the battery is one thing and would certainly apply to a Nissan Leaf or a Ford Mondeo (to include an engine).

But I think using words like "should" and "could" are not wise when dealing with insurance. Assuming gap insurance will cover the amount for the battery is not so great. That product may be designed to cover a few thousand pounds to make up a short fall in a traditional car . I'd be curious to see if it is designed to cover the 5,000 or 7,000 extra for a battery under a separate agreement.

There's one thing someone saying it'll be "ok" , it's another to get it in writing and making sure it's applicable. Also, a lot of insurers (not all, but a significant minority) use separate, independent claims management companies to process their claims. This adds a further complication to whether they class the replacement cost of the vehicle at 7,000 or 14,000.

The proof is always in the pudding though and hopefully nobody will have their car written off. It is rare, but you don't need any additional hassle at such a difficult time.
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 10:00 AM
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RE: Insurance

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald
I understand the concern, but I don't think it is such a big deal. Just spell it out with your insurance company and be clear they'll cover the car value AND the battery value.
I agree that in actuality it's probably quite a simple thing to arrange. But it is yet another mystery to explain and justify whenever you sell the car to its subsequent owner.

Of course, an onward sale to a member of the public is fantasy, and this business further reinforces the point that nobody except a Renault dealership is going to take the car on. Hence you never getting any more than trade for it, hence it being an all round money pit.

Put simply, this is not what EVs should be about!

In addition I dread to think how many 14K Zoe owners have not insured their cars for, or at the very least made their insurers aware of, the correct amount of more like 20K. We all know someone who has had their car written off, and in this sort of situation it is well within the realms of possibility that the battery being treated separately, outside the realms of the original insurance cover, could leave owners in negative equity should the insurer in question not reimburse the full figure in the event of a total loss.

And, let's face it, not paying up is their business.
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 12:36 PM
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RE: Insurance

lol having worked in that industry in the past I'd say it is their business to pay up and I've seen the benefits of a GOOD insurance company. I remember one year our department made 200 million and paid out 198 million in claims. Be aware that even clipped wing mirror claims can now be 10,000+! Cost of repair for other car 500, cost of hire car for other person 1,800. Questionable injury claim for the other person and their passengers 2,000 each and then add legal costs of 4,000. It stinks, but about 70% of third parties make injury claims. We all moan, but 'we' all are part of the problem. Unfortunately gone are the days of a 300 repair. The lawyers and the hire car companies (esp big names like Enterprise) are all on the gravy train at your expense!

But back to insurance. Far too many will use the absolutely cheapest insurer and wonder why they have problems. I'm not saying pay more than you should, but just make sure you use a well renowned insurer and that the cover is there for you and your use and circumstance. If that means paying 30 or 80 a year more, then so be it.

Tell the insurer the TRUTH. If your car is modified, tell them so. Don't convince yourself that they'll never find out because they will. If you tell them most companies will probably be fine if it's something minor (depending on the modification) and even if you've slipped a V8 in and uprated the suspension, you can still find cover with a specialist.

But don't lie. Don't listen to the likes of Martin Lewis who only the other day on his tv show told his viewers to be economical with the truth regarding their occupation with an insurer. WTF! Don't lie and hope they won't find out. They may not, but you can guarantee the time you pull out in front of a family putting their kids in hospital for six months is the time they WILL find out. If so, they are legally obliged to pay the third party injury claim AND then come looking for your assets to recover their costs if your policy is void. Wave goodbye to your house if that's the case.

If you have a child under 21 get them their own car and policy. Don't lie and say that your Mrs is the main user of a 14 year old Corsa and that the you are the main user of the 1 year old Audi A6 and the 2 year old BMW 3 series that you also own. You will come a cropper and you will be prosecuted and will get a criminal record. If little Johnie wants a car, then it will cost. The reason it costs is that when little Johnie does eventually roll it or stuffs it into the back of another car with his 4 mates in, they WILL and do all sue for 15,000 each and eventually that cost results in us all paying more premium.

So with the weird lease agreement it's vitally important to check, double check and triple check that the policy covers the car and the battery for the replacement costs of BOTH. Get it in writing if you have to. If they're hesitant or reluctant to do that then look elsewhere.

Rant over
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