Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it - Page 2 - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-06-2014, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

Thanks for the reply I was after, I sort of agree with you and mine with 5400 miles is probably 6.5k (not 5k as was suggested)..

I have decided to keep it anyway, because I only do sub 50 miles a day and can drive it as hard as I like I think it is unfair to let the car go because it is an inconvenience when I need to do a longer journey

Thanks all will probably post again in another 12 months....
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-06-2014, 04:41 AM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydsrsl
Thanks for the reply I was after, I sort of agree with you and mine with 5400 miles is probably 6.5k (not 5k as was suggested)..

I have decided to keep it anyway, because I only do sub 50 miles a day and can drive it as hard as I like I think it is unfair to let the car go because it is an inconvenience when I need to do a longer journey

Thanks all will probably post again in another 12 months....
Yes I agree entirely. I bought my Fluence with the assumption that I could only do 50 miles. So I have never been disappointed up to now. Still the smoothest drive I have had the pleasure of experiencing.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 05:38 AM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

Trying not to open a new thread on a previously disgussed item I thought I'd draw you all to the couple of Fluences on Autotrader at the moment.

There's a 10k mile example at 4,795 in Milton Keynes which appears good value and a 6,495 21k mile example in Orpington. The super low mileage one that was for sale up in Hartlepool seems to have vanished.

I must think long and hard about 77pm lease though. That's more than my petrol costs but with the protection for the battery on the up side. I dunno. Do I pay 4k more for a Leaf and be done with monthly payments and have a ready second hand market when it's time to trade in, or get the Fluence and pay nearly 900 a year, each year, every year but with battery peace of mind? In 4 years the cost would be the same, but I'd still be paying 77pm on a 7 year old car. But the Leaf could be an expensive paper weight by then. Hmmmm.

Anyhow, enough of my online musings. I wonder when we'll see the first car below the 4k point. January?
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 05:52 AM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

You're thinking about the 77pm the wrong way.

The psychological problem is that they have mapped the price of the battery to mileage, so it is impossible to rid yourself of the direct association between the price of fuel and the cost of the battery.

In reality, you are paying a lease of a lump of stuff, not for a fuel substitute.

Once you recognise that you are paying the lease for the cost of the battery, i.e. it is deducted from the purchase price, then it make more sense.

If you buy a new petrol car you don't think to yourself 'gee, if I pay 1,000 for leather option, that'll mean my fuel costs have gone up' so why do it with the price of the battery?

Don't get me wrong. The mental association between the battery rental and the fuel cost is overwhelming and I really struggle to keep the things apart in my own head, but just remember you're actually only paying for (and only getting!!! ) half a car without a battery, so it stands to reason that you might need to borrow a bit extra to pay for the rest.

If you were to look at the 77pm as a lease purchase of the battery, then that would be equivalent to borrowing 6000 for buying it, spread over 8 years, at 6% APR. People borrow that sort of money to buy cars all the time, and they never think to themselves 'gee, I've just increased my fuel costs by taking out a lease!'.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 08:34 AM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

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Originally Posted by donald
If you were to look at the 77pm as a lease purchase of the battery, then that would be equivalent to borrowing 6000 for buying it, spread over 8 years, at 6% APR.
That's definitely the way to look at it. The price of any given Fluence excludes the battery and the battery is extra.

If our cars were around 10,000 complete then few people would complain - that would make them notably cheaper than a LEAF of the same vintage, and the inelegantly styled Nissan is (at least in the eyes of this entirely unbiased Fluence owner!) the lesser, gawkier choice by some margin.

Sadly most buyers have no point of reference for the poor Renault, nor for battery hire. People do not own vehicles that come in two separate pieces so it's hard for them to wrap their heads around it. Whether the arrangement makes sense or not, the fact it was always an obvious point of bewilderment is really what the manufacturer misjudged.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 01:15 PM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

I'm keen on BEV adoption and the lease still niggles me.

Imagine Joe Public. They might just be being swayed to buying a BEV and then the lease comes along and confuses it all. Easier to walk than look into it further.

Trouble with the lease is it's yet another outgoing to keep track of. And as others have said, it affects your credit rating for mortgages, whereas petrol/diesel doesn't. But we've been there before.

So Eep, what's your best price considering a 4,800 main dealer Fluence?

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-15-2014, 06:20 AM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

To be honest GC, that Fluence looks like an insanely good deal because they'd surely be prepared to take a punt nearer to 4,000. And you can't go arguing that the battery hire is expensive when the nearly new, hilariously good EV it slots into comes that cheap. As this illustrates perfectly, sometimes the hire works in your favour.

I would note that these cars are, in the grand scheme of things, totally rare, and given this particular example provides another indication of their value, you are only ever likely to see ex-lease deals coming to market now, because anyone who financed the car privately and without a guaranteed value will be upside down on the deal to the tune of thousands. They will not want to crystallise such a huge loss and are unlikely to sell without a very good reason. Consider that I bought mine for under 7K a year ago and I don't want to be selling at 4K now; someone who bought at 20K will be taking a very deep bath!

The car for sale is wearing an older plate (mine's a 12) and has a bigger number on the odometer, but it's still covered fewer than 10,000 miles and will come with a Renault backed warranty. I'd have thought it would be an ideal car for donald, but I do get the idea donald is looking for pastures new.

Get 'em while they're hot...
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-15-2014, 04:07 PM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

I would consider a Fluence as a second EV for commuting only, but I think I would be looking to make sure I had something with rapid charging on now. Problem with the Fluence is the warranties are expiring on most of the older ones now, one year to go on these, and my experience (together with all the current reports) isn't indicative of a car-hewn-from-rock level of confidence I'd like. It'd be one thing if all the dealer workshops had plenty of skill at diagnosing and fixing problems quickly, thus cheaply, but it's really on the Leaf that any dealers of any brands are getting close to comprehending the car. Batteries are Gen 1 Leaf batteries, known to begin noticeably dying after 30~50k.

But I struggle because I also know that the Fluence offers an unparalleled level of refinement compared with other EVs.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-15-2014, 05:43 PM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

I personally haven't an issue with the batteries or how long they'd last. The same was said about Prius 10+ years ago when they first came out. All talk of doom and gloom. What's happened is that barely any have died, though to be fair to Toyota, they do give upto 10 years of warranty too.

My main concern about a Fluence is as Donald says, the early ones are nearing warranty expiry and Renaults and perhaps Renault dealers don't have the best reliability record (according to surveys). I have found with the Prius that much servicing is main dealer only as your average 'back street' garage just hasn't got a clue. That will be even worse with a rare electric French car.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 05:07 PM
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RE: Thinkin of selling my fluence how to value it

I think if you are concerned about ongoing reliability of an out of warranty car then you'd better stick with a powertrain that has been tried and tested over many decades, rather than one which has only just gained mainstream acceptance - sort of - and sold weakly over the last few years.

However, I remain happy to continue shooting the breeze over your indecision

To my mind if you genuinely want to take a risk with a used EV then given what we've seen of prices, the big comfy Renault is your best bet by far. The Sale of Goods Act alone will give you recourse with the Renault franchise should the car misbehave early on, and after that it's sufficiently inexpensive as to not worth worrying about.

Consider that some years back my brother ran an early 4.4L X5 through his work, whose alternator replacement (a truly preposterous water cooled affair that only the Germans could get away with installing, on the basis the owners are demonstrably as daft as their pockets are deep) cost a somewhat staggering 1,200. That's a good portion of an entire Fluence!
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