Light bulb moment - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-11-2015, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Light bulb moment

To be honest surrounding the fluence i found allot of negativity and i began to regret my purchase, but today i got my new polar card for their charge points so off i trotted in my fluence to waitrose just on the edge of town. Plugged in no problems the charge began and after going round waitrose i decided to go in to town, thought i would check the charge status on my phone thinking this is great, after it finished a returned to the car as a leaf driver pulled in. I looked at the leaf against my fluence and so glad i didn't buy a leaf the fluence is far more classy and looks it against leaf 10 fold. As i drove away feeling the luxury and smoothness at that point i realized i made the right choice i just love driving it. The only real downside is no fast charging but maybe in the future if not through renault maybe a diy route fast charging becomes a option who knows ? but for now i will just enjoy the car its a joy. If connecting 3rd party chargers wasn't a issue already we have these options ?

Maybe add a 22kW (brusa) charger?

Or parallel 2x Elcon 2500W chargers?

Or install an Orion BMS incl. CHAdeMo support (contactors, inlet, etc)

For most of the time overnight charging is fine but the odd trip thats over 100 miles fat charging is the way to go.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-12-2015, 05:05 PM
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RE: Light bulb moment

It was never designed for Rapid charging - it already copes with Fast charging (and even calls it 'accelerated'). Where did you find any negativity about the Fluence? If it is only about the lack of Rapid charging, then it wasn't missold - it didn't supposedly need it due to the battery swap process, that failed wherever it was tried.

The chances of upgrading just won't fly - the wiring cannot handle it, and the battery lease prevents you from going the DIY route until the battery is yours.

As for other EV's, they are just runabouts - EUp and Leaf are boxes on wheels, yes they may support Chademo for rapid charging, but that standard has been discontinued in favour of CCS, so a lot of EV users will e hacked off when they cannot rapid charge due to the tethered leads being removed!
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 04:39 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Light bulb moment

The negativity is there saying you can't do this can't do that without even trying, if the diy community can take a petrol car and convert it to electric with fast charging why not the fluence most of the hard work is done for you, comments like the fluence will be dead in a few years etc etc and the fact that already many ev forums don't even mention the fluence etc.

At the end of the day the fluence is a beautiful car and i don't actually see many ev's that match it in looks or comfort. I am a fluence supporter which is a good positive thing.

Paul.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 07:07 AM
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RE: Light bulb moment

I don't suppose it will be practical for European owners to do anything but given that the Korean SM3 which is basically the same car does reportedly have rapid charging, would the physical changes be that problematical? If the change has already been done officially, I'm guessing all the parts exist somewhere. Heaven knows what changes would need to be made to the car's various systems, though.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 07:58 AM
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RE: Light bulb moment

I've BTDT with my electric bike (Vectrix) - Support groups launched upgrade paths from Ni-Cad cells to Ni-Li packs, in addition to the battery swap, you needed a new on board charger (at 800-odd) the cell packs and a firmware update from a homebrew supplier. There are already stories of two users with bricked bikes due to the firmware upload failing. I doubt the Fluence will be much different - apart from having to run a new loom of HT wiring for a CCS socket, all this assumes you get the support from a knowlegable source - that won't be coming from Renault!

Faced with a working car with no Rapid charging, and potentially bricking it leaving it only of use for spares, I have no interest in changing what works, its not as if it will make the car do more. You mistake negativty for caution... that's a whole different ballgame. I like my car too much to risk frying it prematurely - and if you don't have an inrush controller in your toolkit, I wouldn't even bother.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-13-2015, 11:54 AM
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RE: Light bulb moment

Yes, I broadly agree. I basically accept the Fluence for what it is - a brilliant car that has a small (for me) limitation in the form of a lack of rapid charging. Even if there was a solution out there I probably wouldn't entertain the likely cost/risk.

That said, it is interesting to speculate and the fact that there is basically the same car out there which appears to be more or less identical but for the incorporation of rapid charging, makes it quite a tantalising question. I wonder if one day second-hand SM3s might make it to the UK as cheap imports? How great would that be if they came batteries included (I have no idea whether Samsung sell the car outright or with a battery lease in Korea)? LHD might make imports less likely I suppose.

That said, I don't find the Fluence's charging speeds so desperately bad when hooked up to a proper Mennekes Type 2 socket at 7kW at home or at a public charging station. Well at least not compared with the three-pin lead alternative!
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 05:18 AM
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RE: Light bulb moment

In over 18 months I've never regretted there not being a Rapid option, only that it might be 'nice' - nothing more. And seeing the angst surrounding broken or blocked Rapid chargepoints, thats a whole new level of anxiety denied us.... so another plus!
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Light bulb moment

For say 95% of the time overnight charge is ideal for me, but it would be nice to have a faster way of charging for those rare longer runs, One thing i don't know why ev designers don't think of generating energy on the move ie like a alternator that says trickle charges the battery's bit like the regen braking does? I read a very good article on range extending on the fluence, this involved a honda generator although it works it kinda defeats the object as the generator was powered by petrol. But the fluence or any ev for that matter already generates the movement so attaching a generator that took force from the ev would make more sense ? Loving the fluence though xxx
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 09:28 AM
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RE: Light bulb moment

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldb38
[...]range extending on the fluence, this involved a honda generator although it works it kinda defeats the object as the generator was powered by petrol.
So the petrol is the additional, highly concentrated energy you got on board, besides the electric energy in the battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldb38
But the fluence or any ev for that matter already generates the movement so attaching a generator that took force from the ev would make more sense ?
NO, that would make no sense at all. Cause the amount of energy you got from the generator is smaller than the additional energy you have to feed to the motor due to the additional generator load. Overall efficiency of inverter-motor-generator-inverter is smaller than 100%, whereas the perpetuum mobile we'd need to make this configuration work needed to have an overall efficiency >=100%. Which is not possible unfortunately.

So it would merely be an expensive "range reducer" in the end (that's the reason nobody does it btw ;-)
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-14-2015, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Light bulb moment

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaty68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldb38
[...]range extending on the fluence, this involved a honda generator although it works it kinda defeats the object as the generator was powered by petrol.
So the petrol is the additional, highly concentrated energy you got on board, besides the electric energy in the battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldb38
But the fluence or any ev for that matter already generates the movement so attaching a generator that took force from the ev would make more sense ?
NO, that would make no sense at all. Cause the amount of energy you got from the generator is smaller than the additional energy you have to feed to the motor due to the additional generator load. Overall efficiency of inverter-motor-generator-inverter is smaller than 100%, whereas the perpetuum mobile we'd need to make this configuration work needed to have an overall efficiency >=100%. Which is not possible unfortunately.

So it would merely be an expensive "range reducer" in the end (that's the reason nobody does it btw ;-)
No this has been done i think the overall range with the honda generator and a fluence was about 350 miles.

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