Charging Options - Page 2 - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 06:23 AM
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RE: Charging Options

If I was installing a home charge point now, I'd put in a wall mounted 32Amp Type 2 socket.

A charger with an attached Type 1 or Type 2 gun limits what you can connect to. A 16Amp connection also reduces flexibility.

The Fluence and Kangoo both come with a Type 1 to Type 2 cable. The Zoe is suppose to come with a Type 2 cable. I'm not sure what comes with a Leaf, but you can get a Type 1 to Type 2 cable for it.


32A might not work for every home though. The lights in our house dim when I add a 7kW load (Electric shower). We probably couldn't charge at 7kW and take a hot shower at the same time.

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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie
I found this digram a French blog -- It was from a Renault display at a recent auto show.

It shows 3kW to 44kW 3Phase AC using a type 2 connector, 3 to 22kW 3-Phase AC using a new type 4 connector, 3 to 7kW on a type 1 and 3kW from a French wall plug. Also shows 50kW CHAdeMO which as far as I know, Zoe won't support. Or will it???

I think the picture just illustrates competing charging standards, not anything specific to the Zoe. You mention a 'Type 4' and 'CHAdeMO' but in the picture this is the same connector - and the Zoe definitely isn't compatible with chademo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie
I found this digram a French blog -- It was from a Renault display at a recent auto show.

There was also a photo of a Zoe charging from a Type 3 plug. Let me see if I can find it.
That's sounds like Christophe Hubert's blog, My E-Life Now. If you are thinking of the same post as me:

http://myelifenow.blogspot.co.uk/201...est-drive.html

then Type 3 referred to the charger end. The car end is definitely Type 2:

http://myelifenow.blogspot.co.uk/201...-interior.html

(We have referenced each other's blogs a few times, e.g.:
http://myrenaultzoe.com/index.php/20...s-renault-zoe/ )
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 04:18 AM
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RE: Charging Options

Type 4 was a typo. I meant type 3, which Zoe is likely to support, perhaps with a type 2 to type 3 cable.

The last thing a workable charging infrastructure needs is yet another standard. At first glance, Type 2 looks to be more flexible. Why are they doing this?
I haven't spent a lot of time looking at the EV Plug Alliance yet. Is it French companies imposing a new standard so they don't have to use a German connector? Or is it the health and safety shutters?

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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 05:07 AM
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RE: Charging Options

From an uneducated consumers' point of view, I really hope they simplify this in the customer proposition!
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Charging Options

I thought it was interesting that in that blog post Christophe suggested that the Type 3 "should change later on to Type 2 to become compatible with other European countries". It would be nice to think it's as *simple* as Type 2 in Europe, Chademo in Japan and SAE J1772 in the US. However, since the German manufacturers support J1772 we could actually see two different standards inside Europe.

Actually it's already worse than that as it's Chademo wherever the LEAF and Miev are sold - so in the US it's J1772 and Chademo, and in Europe it's Type 2, J1772 and Chademo.

And that's ignoring that Tesla uses its own proprietary connector.

Can you use the word 'standard' when there are 4 of them?
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-24-2013, 01:46 PM
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RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie
If I was installing a home charge point now, I'd put in a wall mounted 32Amp Type 2 socket.
That's exactly what I had done today.

It's a 'no-brainer' to me. My Fluence came with a J1772 to Type 2 charging lead (and all EVs will likely now come with a connection to a standard Type 2 socket) so why would I need yet another lead flopping around? And the extra 75 for the 7kW (30A) charger option is an obvious bit of future-proofing (as far as it can go, off a 1-phase domestic box - and I don't think I would want to regularly charge an Li-ion battery faster than 7kW in any case).

I can't see why people would pick a tethered lead, unless they are only thinking of short-term use. The lead is only going to get worn, twisted, and generally degraded at the junction with the unit that the whole thing will need repairing or replacing after a short while, whereas a socket into which a lead is plugged means if the lead goes wrong you just buy another one. Likewise, if you change the car and it has a different connection, all you do is change the lead, not the unit.

I'm wondering if I might not also buy a slightly longer charge lead, just so I have a few other options for orienting the family fleet on the driveway. You can't pick-and-choose the lead length on a tethered charger!

I'm also none-too-impressed with the levels of dexterity and time taken that will be needed to properly wind up the cable around the station in the most sympathetic and least-damaging manner. There is an art in efficiently rolling leads up (that is to say, any leads or ropes with a particular 'lay') so they are kink-free. It is a much easier job if both ends are free.

Like I say, to me it is a no-brainer.

'Chargemaster' fitted mine today. I applied last Wednesday (for the, currently free, Gov-sponsored unit fitment), an appointment [for today] was arranged within a day. All done. No probs (so far that I can tell!!), car currently on charge.

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-11-2013, 04:04 PM
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RE: Charging Options

You all overlook the Twizy, which requires a 13a standard domestic socket. Indeed, as the lowest common denominator, it doesn't get much better than this as there will always be a 13a point somewhere. The fact some overlook it, or do their best to imagine it doesn't exist is doing everyone a disservice.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 08:08 AM
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RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzby
You all overlook the Twizy, which requires a 13a standard domestic socket. Indeed, as the lowest common denominator, it doesn't get much better than this as there will always be a 13a point somewhere. The fact some overlook it, or do their best to imagine it doesn't exist is doing everyone a disservice.
It's OK for the Twizy with a small battery capacity, but larger cars and battery capacities takes a looong time charging at 2kW.

It is bad enough at 3.3 kW, but at least you can get a full charge over-night for a 22kWh battery. As battery pack capacities increase, I reckon 7kW (30A) will become standard on vehicles for over-night charging. Anything more [on a regular basis] will push the battery too hard and reduce life, and anything less will be too slow.



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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 01:41 PM
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RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzby
You all overlook the Twizy, which requires a 13a standard domestic socket. Indeed, as the lowest common denominator, it doesn't get much better than this as there will always be a 13a point somewhere. The fact some overlook it, or do their best to imagine it doesn't exist is doing everyone a disservice.
It's OK for the Twizy with a small battery capacity, but larger cars and battery capacities takes a looong time charging at 2kW.

It is bad enough at 3.3 kW, but at least you can get a full charge over-night for a 22kWh battery. As battery pack capacities increase, I reckon 7kW (30A) will become standard on vehicles for over-night charging. Anything more [on a regular basis] will push the battery too hard and reduce life, and anything less will be too slow.
That's probably the same view the engineers who decided not to provide a 13a household plug probably had BUT electric cars are in their infancy and the option to charge ANYWHERE via a slow household socket is exceptionally important.

What happens if your home wall charger packs up? You're stuffed. At least with the OPTION of a household plug you can keep charing (albeit slowly) until it was fixed. Same if you get caught short somewhere.

Personally I think it will be another nail in the coffin for Renault EVs along with Renaults complete insistence that you hire the battery. No ifs or buts, no other options, just their way or no way.




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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 02:28 PM
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RE: Charging Options

... but all EVs (AFAIK) are already available with standard mains outlet leads. In the case of Renaults, they are optional extras (the Type 2 lead being standard), whereas for Leafies they come as standard (Type 2 being extra).

A '13A' plug is not rated for continuous use, and must be limited to 10A (which is done by the switch mode box-'o-tricks in-line on the cable).

Just feel for a moment for the US folks with 120V supplies, which would take some 20 hrs to fully charge a flat battery.

So ... not sure what the comment really refers to - I'd agree that you might well like to have a 3 pin mains functionality, but it is no good as the one and only charging means, which appeared to be the suggestion I was responding to.
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