Charging Options - Page 3 - Renault Z.E. Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 03:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 381
RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald
... but all EVs (AFAIK) are already available with standard mains outlet leads. In the case of Renaults, they are optional extras (the Type 2 lead being standard), whereas for Leafies they come as standard (Type 2 being extra).

A '13A' plug is not rated for continuous use, and must be limited to 10A (which is done by the switch mode box-'o-tricks in-line on the cable).

Just feel for a moment for the US folks with 120V supplies, which would take some 20 hrs to fully charge a flat battery.

So ... not sure what the comment really refers to - I'd agree that you might well like to have a 3 pin mains functionality, but it is no good as the one and only charging means, which appeared to be the suggestion I was responding to.
The Zoe DOESN'T come with the option to charge from a household plug.

GrumpyCabbie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 06:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 803
RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyCabbie
The Zoe DOESN'T come with the option to charge from a household plug.
Looking at the Zoe brochure, that appears to be correct. Though, I would be very [but not necessarily entirely] surprised if it was not possible to obtain a 3rd party 'EVSE' lead with a Mennekes connector at the end that would do the job.

I say 'not entirely surprised' because to sell a car that cannot be charged via a 3 pin plug (even for those sharp enough to source their own lead) would seem like retail suicide for an EV, yet Renault do seem to be fond of this commercial tactic. (Maybe it is simply to confuse the competition!?? :lol: Or someone in Renault, half-way between Ghosn and production, wants to kill off EVs!!?)

Anyway, this is off my response to Busby, which was that '3 pin' as a charging option is not an option for larger battery capacities than a Twizy.


donald is offline  
post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-25-2013, 07:11 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 381
RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald
Anyway, this is off my response to Busby, which was that '3 pin' as a charging option is not an option for larger battery capacities than a Twizy.
3 pin or household plug is ALWAYS an option. It might be an inefficient option or a slow option but it is absolutely necessary in the early days of EV adoption for the reasons given earlier.

It should come as standard and shouldn't require the purchase of a 400 optional charge lead.

GrumpyCabbie is offline  
post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 05:19 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 158
RE: Charging Options

Switch mode chargers are generally most efficient at close to full power. A 7kW charger is probably 95% efficient at 7kW. At half power that might drop to 80% or even lower.

Full power for Chameleon is 43kW - 3 phase or about 14kW per phase. Half power is 7kW, with careful design efficiency is still good enough. But at 2kW from a 3-pin plug conversion might be really terrible. So bad that charging would take forever.
Andrew*Debbie is offline  
post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 05:58 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 381
RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie
Switch mode chargers are generally most efficient at close to full power. A 7kW charger is probably 95% efficient at 7kW. At half power that might drop to 80% or even lower.

Full power for Chameleon is 43kW - 3 phase or about 14kW per phase. Half power is 7kW, with careful design efficiency is still good enough. [undefined=undefined] But at 2kW from a 3-pin plug conversion might be really terrible. So bad that charging would take forever. [/undefined]
But as you know from the Leaf forum, home wall chargers are not very reliable. If you own a Zoe and the wall charger breaks, you're stuck. No slow backup - nothing.

(the UK Zoe doesn't allow the option of charging from a household socket)
GrumpyCabbie is offline  
post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 03:26 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 167
RE: Charging Options

With current battery capacity and my habit of charging once charge level reaches 25% I find the 10A charge from a 13A socket fits neatly an overnight charge, taking just over 7 hours. The 16A wall charger still takes 5.5 hours so is no more convenient. Or maybe I'm just trying to justify spending 420 on an extra cable?

I also think that a standby 13A socket charge option is commonsense. Had I not purchased the extra cable I would have had my car sitting for weeks on the driveway waiting for BG to do their business. As it was, there was a 3 week delay getting that darned cable to the dealer before I would accept the car!

Has anyone got any views on public charging stations? Can you find them, do they work etc. etc.?
pauledg is offline  
post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 03:27 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 158
RE: Charging Options

There aren't any public charging stations here on Anglesey. There are three ZeroCarbonWorld charging stations in our general area. I know where all of them are and they were all working the last time I saw them. There is also a charging station at the ASDA in Bangor. Dunno if it is working.
Andrew*Debbie is offline  
post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 04:15 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 167
RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie
There aren't any public charging stations here on Anglesey. There are three ZeroCarbonWorld charging stations in our general area. I know where all of them are and they were all working the last time I saw them. There is also a charging station at the ASDA in Bangor. Dunno if it is working.
That's the problem for occasional long journeys. You cannot plan to refuel at the only station en route if you can't be sure it will be available and working. The satnav's ZE Services item is supposed to go a fair way to sorting this but "NOT AVAILABLE IN THIS COUNTRY" is what you get if you click on it - but the user manual's there to show you what you're missing.
pauledg is offline  
post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 02:53 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 803
RE: Charging Options

I've had an email exchange with the chaps at Ecotricity who have been installing stations at the 'Welcome Break' motorway services, with much this concern - I wanted to understand if you can book a 'slot' for recharging, ahead of getting there.

The answer was simply that the charging stations are so underused at the moment that there is just no motivation for doing such a thing. The busiest sites see one car recharging a day!

As for faults and failures, it could even get worse than you think - in one story, this journo parked up a Fluence in London and took on some street-charging. When he got back, the charging station had 'crashed' and shut down. This locked his charging lead in place and had given him no charge, so he couldn't go anywhere [no charge, and if he left his lead, he'd probably lose it when the station came back on] and so took a taxi home. (He even found a note on the car the next day from another disgruntled EV owner complaining he was blocking the parking space - not realising that it was non-functional.)

The [current model] Fluence makes distance driving Reeeaal simple - with no fast charging, it is simply not an option to go far!!! It might be 'cost effective' to take on a couple of hours of top-up charge while shopping so as to ensure you have 20 miles to get home again, but it would seem high risk to have gone in the hope of recharging when it would have been easier and risk free to get 2 hours of extra charging at home before going shopping.

Charging stations for 'slow' charging seems almost a gimmick, because it is difficult to see when you'd really want to take advantage of one. They might come into play if you are pushing the envelope of your range and a little top-up will ease your range anxiety, but otherwise if you don't have the range to do the whole trip on one charge, are you really going to rely on a slow-charge point?

I'll be testing out one of the Welcome Break sites soon when I do a run at the limit of the cars range, but at a recharge rate of 10 miles for each hour of charge, it is simpler just to drive slower and slower to achieve ultimate distance, than to stop and recharge. ....

.... how slow do you think it is actually 'safe' to drive on the motorway!?!?.....
donald is offline  
post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 05:41 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 158
RE: Charging Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald

Charging stations for 'slow' charging seems almost a gimmick, because it is difficult to see when you'd really want to take advantage of one.

Charging at 16Amps only works as destination charging. The current generation of charge card based stations aren't reliable, although Ecotricity seems to have the best record of responding to problems.

Ones that are always unlocked are more reliable. They don't need a cellular data connection to a back-end server to work.

So you could drive somewhere for a day out and put 40+ miles back into the pack while you are there. With a Fluence, that is good for 100+ miles round trip if you trust the charging station at the destination.

You also have the 10A EVSE for a backup if the 16Amp charger isn't working.

Even 32A is too slow for en-route charging. Still with 32amps, you can get another 20 miles or so during a lunch break.


Andrew*Debbie is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome