Which charger? - Page 4 - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #31 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-22-2014, 09:24 AM
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RE: Which charger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyCabbie
We have 3 worldwide fast charge standards developing for ev plugs, potentially with the addition of Tesla too. How many with inductive charging? What if you have the Betamax version in one town and VHS in the next city? Are they 100% safe? What if someone with a pacemaker walks over the pad?
Actually, this is probably the easiest question to answer: You'll use a ferrite based receive coil for receiving the induction field, and that is most efficient around the 40kHz range - lower means higher rated electrical components, faster means more difficult, less efficient electrical control of the generating field.

40kHz is pretty much an industry standard for things like switch mode supplies and such which use ferrite transformers.

So the only requirement for an inductive field is that it is generated at a given frequency, almost certainly 40kHz. The rest is down to the receiver to be efficient at receiving it, self-resonant tuning, etc..

For any equipment, especially medical ones, then a simple matter of adding additional EMC compliance requirements to NOT be susceptible to a 40kHz signal, which many probably are already, intentionally or otherwise.

I think this is a real easy thing to deduce. What is less clear is how to generate that field, and what are the best designs for on-board induction receivers.

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post #32 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-22-2014, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Which charger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald
There are some experimental/trial set-ups, and in a couple of Italian towns there are recharging EV buses that have been operating for a few years now. But it's not quite as simple as you are suggesting.
Oh goodness, I never suggested it was simple. I think an induction idea which might form the basis for an EV wireless charging standard is at least ten years away, and the network itself many years beyond that.

I don't for example imagine that I will see any system incorporated into public highways in my lifetime; you mentioned "on-the-move inductive charging" yourself and I didn't think for a moment it was anything but a look to the future.

I don't like the idea of tens of thousands of chargers being installed at the cost of hundreds of millions of pounds when it would be safer and easier to assume that technology will move quite swiftly to a point where the de facto refuelling mechanism for EVs is induction or swapping - anything other than phoning Chargemaster to report a post that doesn't work. And if Chargemaster can't operate smoothly now, when the real world demands on their network are as near to nil as makes no odds, then I see a lot of misguided EV owners going hybrid for their next car.

Tesla have been keen to demonstrate their 90-second battery swapping technology, and there's even a page detailing it on the UK site. While it's true that this system is proprietary, history dictates that if any proprietary system is demonstrably superior then there is a high chance it will be adopted as the standard.

It just seems daft to continue down a road we know to be a cul de sac, though it is of course in Chargemaster's interest given their growth has been fuelled more by grants than a desire to innovate.
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post #33 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-22-2014, 10:13 AM
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RE: Which charger?

Thanks for clarifying. Sorry, didn't mean to infer anything. Yes, I agree that inductive charging looks a long way off, though the reality is that if UK Gov wants EVs to happen, it better start really trying to do this stuff.
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post #34 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-22-2014, 10:59 AM
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RE: Which charger?

There's the rub. To avoid proliferation of standards in the EV industry needs national if not international planning. Governments only think as far as the next election, they have no incentive to start something the other lot get the glory for. So it's down to some international body and I fear the whole idea of EV's will be out of date before such a body comes to a conclusion. Betamax vs. Vhs? Stopgap before CD's which are now bypassed by memory sticks, downloads and the like. Progress will continue unabated and some good ideas get trampled on along the way. But then I actually LIKE new technology, even if it has momentary fame. I have cupboards of the stuff to prove it!

Induction systems under crumbling roads sounds like a nightmare, might work in the dry areas of California where concrete roads seem to last a lifetime. System under your drive? Why bother, is it too much trouble to plug in a cable? We still have the problem of who installs it and who pays for it.

I must investigate the Oxford hybrid buses which, I believe I saw, charge up through the day somehow. And still the odd one gets stranded!
Ah, got the answer, they are electric buses with a small diesel engine to charge the batteries, aided by regeneration. I note they do not risk taking them into the countryside...
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post #35 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-22-2014, 11:00 AM
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RE: Which charger?

lol they don't really want it to succeed. All that lost tax revenue from both petrol/diesel sales and North Sea oil? Come on.

The reason I do like EV's other than the smooth, quiet drive they give, is that potentially you can charge your car for 'free' using your own solar PV. Obviously such a system costs to buy, but it also has other benefits and a long life. But being able to plug my car in and charge it during a sunny weekend day for free (or at least a substantial free amount) really appeals to this Yorkshireman.

Governments, however 'green' they pretend to be, just don't want that. All those jobs and tax 's at risk.
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post #36 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-27-2014, 03:37 AM
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RE: Which charger?

Different issue - but same topic: Has anyone successfully charged a Fluence at an APT Rapid a Charging station? I realise it cannot charge in rapid mode, but of the 2 tethered leads it sports a standard Fluence T2 cable can plug into this (like an extension) and plug into the car ax all the genders are correct.

I don't have one locally to try, but just wondered before I have to depend on one!
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post #37 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-27-2014, 03:43 AM
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RE: Which charger?

Good question, Busby. Logically so long as the lead fits the car should be able to take as much charge as it requires at the car's maximum charge rate. But reading posts on other forums for Zoe and Leaf nothing ever seems to be that simple. If I can find one I'll try it.
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post #38 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-27-2014, 04:46 AM
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RE: Which charger?

If it is a Type 2 socket, then yes it will work else it is not conforming to the standard and will have to be remedied.

Both the car and the lead itself define the charging protocol the charge station will deliver. It is up to the car to determine how much charge current it draws, and the charge station does not control that in so far as it does not interrupt the charge unless it detects an over-current or residual current fault.

However, as the standard is nominally 3.3kW and 6.6kW, and Renault ZEs appear to draw 3.5kW or 7kW (per phase), I think there have been examples (in Zoe's case) where charge stations have tripped out.
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post #39 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-27-2014, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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RE: Which charger?

I had a Chargemaster fit a socketed wall unit the other week. For free. But on the wonk. Sigh.
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post #40 of 49 (permalink) Old 02-27-2014, 01:52 PM
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RE: Which charger?

I had some spare time this PM (idle hands!) so went to a Rapid Charger site.

As I suspected, these Rapid chargers have two tethered leads a DC (massive) plug, and on the AC side a female (?) T2 socket. This is the same socket normally found on a T2 chargepost so parking up hauling out the standard Fluence charge lead, I was indeed correct the T2 plugs mated without issue, so the other end was plugged into the Fluence as normal.

Swiping my CYC card it went through the initialisation before telling me I was an 'Unauthorised User' and the screed greyed out, before returning to say 'Swipe Your Card'.

So a fail - but not conclusive that it cannot be done, simply that there may be authentication issues unrelated to using the AC side of an APT charger. I'll try with a different one if I can.
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