Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ? - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-17-2014, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

I don't understand that I can't find my question somewhere else in the topics

My question is if the great Chameleon charger can be built in a Fluence, the 3,7 KW is much too slow.

I once read that in Israel at the time Better Place exists, there were Fluence with this charger.

all the public chargers here in NL are 11 KW or more wich the ZOE takes advantage of.

The Fluence has a convertor that converts the 220 Volt to 400, so this extra equipment only slows down the charge, that's also with some other cars the case, to make it work on your domestic outlet will slow down the charge at chargepoints that can charge faster than 3,7KW.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-19-2014, 07:42 AM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

AFAIK, the Chameleon charger is one in which the motor windings itself become the inductors to a 3-ph buck-boost converter. The alterations are not insignificant and it is not simply a case of swapping a modular charger.

Personally, I would not want a Chameleon charger in my Fluence if I was paid to have it. (Well, depends how much I'd be paid!!) It charges inefficiently at low charge rates, it buzzes and I am sensitive to high pitched noise, and I don't want and have never needed to charge it quickly. That is all before the extra cost it would incur.

In fact, you might find it is easier to upgrade the charger on the Fluence than you think. Not that I would attempt it, but folks add on their own higher power chargers to the Leaf and I see no reason it can't be done to the Fluence. This is because having a modular charger that charges the battery is a relatively simple wiring, whereas I'd shudder to imagine what the 'plumbing' is like for the Chameleon, and would involve more than I think a good DIY solution (however professional the installer is) could muster.

In this regard, I think the Fluence's architecture will be far more 'maintainable' and 'modifyable' than the Zoe/Chameleon charger in the future.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-19-2014, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

Thank you very much for you're clear answer Donald.
The charge technique of a Zoe is more complex than I thought.

Most of the time 3,7 KW is enough when I charge at home, but when I'm on my way for example at supermarkets or birthday visits 11 KW or more would be great.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-31-2014, 10:39 AM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

Are you sure Better Places EVER were around with a faster charge rate? The reason why I doubt it, is the BP's reason to exist was the the battery exchange program. The only reason Renault didn't plan any faster charge option was the battery swap model gave a full battery capacity in 4 minutes (better than CCS, Chademo etc). But this idea proved unpopular, and BP collapsed. All subsequent models were then Rapid Charge capable.

I can plan my workload round a Fast Chargepoint so it isn't a big deal for me - as 5hrs average to get to full from empty is fine - even if the guessometer suggests it to be anything from 6-8 hrs.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-31-2014, 01:05 PM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

They were also running some prototype Meganes in Israel. I don't know what charge rate they had.

IMHO, charging in the middle of the day is not what EVs are meant to do. Period. If you can't do your daily trip on one charge, it's the wrong vehicle for the job. Yeah, OK, I may be over-emphasising a POV there to make a point, but I think the whole thing comes down to an issue of planning.

I don't think HM Gov should be investing any tax payers cash into charging points. Instead they should offer free road tax to any ICE second vehicle in a household, which would then encourage the most promising area for EV growth - multi-car households where an ICE can be used for longer journeys.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 12:00 PM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

Sorry, I don't get it. Charging during the day is little different from charging at night. If yo're referring to the cost (some folk benefit from an off peak tariff as a 'reward' for doing so) but others do not.

The constant, is zero emissions 24 x 7 and currently Nil VED so the physical hours you charge are immaterial. I'll take a top up if I can, where I can - if not I'll charge overnight ah home.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 01:45 PM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

No, I just meant the time required. I guess if you sleep in the day then, yeah OK, charge in the day!

I was just meaning that short range 100 mile EVs are flat-out intended to be charged while you're sleeping, and if you do top-ups during the day to go further then you are on a wing-and-a-prayer.

I have a dismal view on public/top-up charging. 100 mile EVs are for shopping, commuting and local socialising. They just aren't meant for anything else. If you use them for something else, expect difficulties!
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 02:26 PM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald
100 mile EVs are for shopping, commuting and local socialising. They just aren't meant for anything else. If you use them for something else, expect difficulties!
Amen.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2014, 06:03 AM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

Sleeping? Why - can't you multi-task?

I'm an auditor by day and check on a number if locations. I leave home at 0730 and arrive again my first port of call some 20 miles away. I'm down to around 75%, but as I'm at a shopping centre, I hook up and start work, which takes me around 2 hours. When I finish, my battery is full and I'm ready to move on - with full range. Whilst I'm gainfully employed, instead of my car depreciating in the car park, it is not only doing something useful (charging) but I get an EV reserved spot near the main doors!

My next two calls are a rerun, so daily I cover around 180m and whilst I agree there is respite to let it keep charging, I'm not doing anything different when I had my ICE, which is why i find your reasoning seriously flawed. Even visits to my local outlying towns, there is at least 2 car parks that offer recharging so that I have no 'down' time - rapid charging?

I've no need for it!
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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RE: Zoe Chameleon charger in a Fluence ?

Well, that's good, it works for you.

Your journey is somewhat likewise to an 'urban delivery' type cycle. EVs are good for that too and are directed to such usage cycles as well. I just didn't cover 'commercial' usage in my flawed, and obviously limited, summary of EV uses. It was just a very generalised POV to highlight the basic issues, but, yeah, of course, there may be other particular cycles that EVs will work on, but simply to say it wasn't 'designed' for what you are doing with it.

All the same, what happens if the charger fails, or is occupied by another EV?
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