The unloved e-up. - Renault Z.E. Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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The unloved e-up.

I like the e-up. I don't like a pile of self-conflicting information VW have given it in various briefs, but trying to find my way past all that I think it has some reasonable range figures for the battery size and could suit my needs.

Anyhow, I've looked into various forums and watched several youtube reviews, and people have good things to say but it always comes behind any other options, mainly because of the price. Some VW honcho has already made an ill-advised comment that it won't sell very well. So if VW say it themselves ....

One thing I much prefer about it over Nissan/Renault is that they appear to use Li-Ni-Co-Mn batteries, which are much better lived. I haven't seen that stated explicitly, but it comes up in some literature they have on the recycling of the battery.

Not as good as Li-titanate, I would happily pay extra for that, and behind, but not too far off ,the NiAl tech of Tesla (but 'safer'). In fact, VW put an 8 year warranty on their battery, though they only appear to give the rest of the car a 3 year warranty when every other EV drivetrain I know of gets at least a 5 year cover.

Seems like a neat compact car, and I have been in the skoda citigo and I like that car, a very 'honest' solid thing.

Why am I thinking about it? Well, so far, reports are less enthusiastic towards it than even those of the Fluence, even on the 'Up' forum they don't seem to regard it as creditable. It's only got a 3kW charger (but has a DC rapid charge facility). They are already up on autotrader with 5k discount. And I have found out that VW UK has committed to an order of 250 this year, which means they'll have about 240 unsold by the end of the year!!!

It's gonna be like the Fluence all over again!! RCI can offer me my Fluence back at a nice price and I'd happily keep it, or otherwise I'll be walking and I think I'll keep an eye on this Aye-Up instead!

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 01:18 PM
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RE: The unloved e-up.

You may well be right - I saw one in a dealers but it was a leased demo they bought, and couldn't be sold. When is crunch time for your Fluence - 2015, 2016?
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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RE: The unloved e-up.

3 yr old - Jan '15.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-13-2014, 06:56 PM
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RE: The unloved e-up.

What don't people like about the car? I get that the charger has people turning their noses up, but there must be a lot more to it than that because what you've said makes it sound like the entire concept is a flop. Are we just used to flops and that's now our expectation?

I do get frustrated with the way EVs tend to getting a kicking in the press, and while I appreciate there are limitations to ownership these are generally few in number and offset by the many benefits.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2014, 03:38 AM
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RE: The unloved e-up.

Keeping a continued interest in electric cars I wouldn't say the e-Up is unloved rather than overpriced. The base model is 19,270 (or 24,270 without Government assistance!) for what is a small, economy car. The base Nissan Leaf by contrast is 21,500.

If the marketing companies of car manufacturers stopped treating EV's as 'premium' models and priced them competitively, they might just sell a few more. The confusion of battery leasing is causing problems too; just look at adverts on Autotrader where they stress the battery is included, though the adverts for cars that do require the battery to be leased (Zoe, Leaf Flex etc) don't always mention it.

Confusion and overpricing reigns supreme when it comes to EVs, and that's before we get onto range anxiety, most EVs being 4 seater and the insistence on a 100 mile range.

There is a thread about Tesla on this forum too. Well, VW can't sell their overpriced small electric vehicles, neither can Renault and to a lesser extent Nissan. Discounts abound if buying new, apart from that is Tesla. OK I appreciate they aim for the executive market but from 50,000 for a 200+ range electric car, with 5+2 seats, stylish looks (to many people - you can't please everyone) and a good driving experience. Tesla are not significantly discounting their new Tesla S, in fact far from it. They're demanding a significant margin over new. The odd one comes up on Autotrader at about 90k+ and quickly disappears never to be seen again, presumable sold.

The same old Leafs, Fluences and Zoes keep on appearing there week after week after week.

I have held back from buying electric as I was put off by the 50% reduced range in winter, reliability issues (Renault in general and Leaf charger issues), and the fact that they're over priced - still. And I'm an EV advocate. God knows what those on the fence are thinking.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2014, 05:23 PM
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RE: The unloved e-up.

I don't know that 19,270 is expensive for an EV per se when an Astra 1.6 CDTi is about 20,000. People tend to forget how pricey new D-segment cars are these days relative to second hand bargains like the Fluence. Something like the Passat, which - when my father had one - was about as dull an appliance you could imagine, also cannot not be had for less than twenty grand.

Plus the overwhelming majority of cars these days are bought on finance, and what matters to those majority of buyers is the monthly payment. Here the BMW i3 wins hands down, in that while it's north of 30K it's actually just 369 a month over three years with a reasonable initial payment. If the outright purchase price were the factor you think it is, premium models like the 3-Series would not be outselling mainstream rivals costing half as much.

What is true however is the little e-Up is significantly pricey alongside its combustion powered variants, the cheapest of which is just 8,635. And here again I can't help thinking that the e-Golf will be the car that wins people over, in that its price won't be so far removed from the combustion versions and the Golf itself is Europe's best selling car. People like it.

On the subject of the Tesla, it has certainly become the poster boy for the EV market as a whole; a sort of universal halo model for battery powered cars. This has come about principally because it was a milk float that successfully targeted and won out against what have traditionally been viewed as the best cars in the world: cars like the S-Class and 7-Series. It has also been well received thanks to prodigious power and serious range, and once other manufacturers cotton on to these and other pleasures of going electric, and give up banging on about eco-this and green-credentials-that, it won't be too long before they have it cracked.

I will reserve judgement on the Model S looks until I've seen one up close, but from what I've seen on the road it's pretty unexceptional. It looks like an American's idea of a European car. As donald pointed out in a much earlier thread, it is also improbably wide - wider even than the last Range Rover, meaning it's solidly impractical for any place I'd want to drive it on a regular basis.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2014, 05:52 PM
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RE: The unloved e-up.

Not for a Supermarket parking bay then, even if you only had a basket for groceries.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2014, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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RE: The unloved e-up.

Aye-up now at 13,990. They're dropping quicker than the Fluence did!
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2014, 07:22 AM
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RE: The unloved e-up.

12,990 in Glasgow - but I'm not tempted. I should have asked what my Fluence as a trade-in would bring!
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-17-2014, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
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RE: The unloved e-up.

Where did you see that? Problem is that if you search on VW-used now, they are mixing it on price with the higher priced petrol versions!
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