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Buzby 08-14-2015 04:52 PM

RE: Light bulb moment
The Fluence was designed from scratch as a 'battery swap' model. Sure, it collapsed like a lead baloon in the countries it was tried in, but that was reasoning behind the development - and to be honest, it is one part of the engineering that was slick and we just don't see it - have a look on You Tube for the video on how battery swap worked.... it is hard not to be impressed.

So with swapping denied us, we go for next best, which is Fast Charging - so that's the limit of the advancement, anything else will be a compronise!

ElectricDave 08-14-2015 07:19 PM

RE: Light bulb moment
At least the fact that the Fluence was originally designed as a battery swapper should mean it's easy to exchange the battery should that become necessary...

Buzby 08-15-2015 06:22 AM

RE: Light bulb moment
I saw it done - and not using the dedicated battery lift conveyor! there are 4 locking bolts that are turned to release the pack and the contacts between the pack and the car are purely contact-based.... no physical requirement to spanner in a connector and tighten it. The issue is you either lift the car, and find some way to support the battery as it is lowered out of the way, or use the below-ground method where a smaller battery lift unlocks the bolts and takes it down into a pit... just as the Battery Swap stations did. The swap I saw was the former, and looked precarious as a trolley was found to place under the pack as the rest of the car was raised to leave it behind. The replacement went in the same way, but centering it took some time in order to prevent damage to the battery mount. Easy when the automated system does it, but really complex without.

There is also some firmware to tell the car the battery is being swapped (not the Better Places front end) but I don't know how this is activated as it was done before I saw the process start.

ElectricDave 08-15-2015 07:52 AM

RE: Light bulb moment
Interesting. I vaguely remember being told by someone at Renault around the time of the Fluence's launch that if, say, a mini-cab firm had shown an interest they could probably have kitted them out with the required set up to swap the battery themselves, although this was all completely speculative/theoretical in the context of a general chat. I'm not sure whether it would have been quite so viable if they'd looked into it in more detail!

I'm assuming that even if such a capability had been available, it would have been easier most of the time to charge the car rather than swap the battery, but the battery swap might be a bit of a life-saver if an important job came in late in the working day.

Buzby 08-15-2015 02:53 PM

RE: Light bulb moment
If you find the Better Places video, I recall there was one scene with a battery on a yellow scissors-type trolley on wheels and (I assume) this would take the grunt out of locating and inserting the pack..... BUT, wouldn't you need two of them - to despatch the empty battery and install the replacement? Logistics apart, the least-worst option would really be to charge it, as it would take me around the recharge time simply to swap them over! Clearly, a swap dictated by capacity or battery fault conditions, not simply a lack of juice.

Still, a swap with the BT system was certainly faster than a Rapid charge!

Heliguy 10-17-2015 03:02 PM

RE: Light bulb moment

Originally Posted by pauldb38

Originally Posted by beaty68

Originally Posted by pauldb38
[...]range extending on the fluence, this involved a honda generator although it works it kinda defeats the object as the generator was powered by petrol.

So the petrol is the additional, highly concentrated energy you got on board, besides the electric energy in the battery.


Originally Posted by pauldb38
But the fluence or any ev for that matter already generates the movement so attaching a generator that took force from the ev would make more sense ?

NO, that would make no sense at all. Cause the amount of energy you got from the generator is smaller than the additional energy you have to feed to the motor due to the additional generator load. Overall efficiency of inverter-motor-generator-inverter is smaller than 100%, whereas the perpetuum mobile we'd need to make this configuration work needed to have an overall efficiency >=100%. Which is not possible unfortunately.

So it would merely be an expensive "range reducer" in the end (that's the reason nobody does it btw ;-)

No this has been done i think the overall range with the honda generator and a fluence was about 350 miles.

Would you have a link to more info about this?

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